116 points by kurinikku 16 hours ago
| 39 comments
stavrosjust now
For something like this, where you need durability, lightness, and heat resistance, you just can't be at ABS. If your printer can't print it, I think it's worth getting it printed somewhere else (after prototyping with other materials). Just the reduced weight alone will be worth it, let alone the fact that ABS is nigh indestructible.
sporp1 hour ago
OpenSCAD! My personal favorite 3D modeling software. Started using it a decade ago since it made sense to me as a coder and I've been too stubborn to use anything else.
Quite cool! I wonder if it doesn't wear down the laptop hinges to keep it at 180 degrees opened in an upright position. Could print some clamps for the sides to reduce strain if that's the case. Though that'd only work for laptops that actually _do_ open 180 degrees, according to TFA, not that many.
I have a "car desk", which is just a little expandable contraption you hang on the steering wheel, then you can place your laptop on it. I wouldn't call it ergonomic per se (the right external keyboard could probably fix that), but using it for about one hour per week, it works well and doesn't cause any issues I'm aware of. The driver seat is not a place where I previously could get any work done, so the bar is a bit low.
heresie-dabordjust now
Getting computer work done inside a vehicle is not easy if comfort is a requirement. Driving posture is not generalisable.
The ergonomy of most laptops (and keyboards in general) is poor. The modern laptop that is most ergonomic is the "2 in 1" design, which can be folded and used as a tablet.
For a programmer, an ergonomic keyboard with a trackball, connected to a 2-in-1 portable in tablet mode, might be easiest to assemble from common components for working during travel.
this-ponyjust now
Another option is to plug in AR/VR glasses, which solves the head tilting problem in trains. There are plenty of options around ~500 EUR/USD nowadays, which might be worth it for people with a daily commute.
regularfryjust now
AR glasses are perfect for this. Best if you can configure your laptop to give you a video signal while the lid is closed, which seems to be luck of the draw.
giancarlostoro4 hours ago
> I have a "car desk", which is just a little expandable contraption you hang on the steering wheel, then you can place your laptop on it.
I remember one of those on Amazon with like a thousand reviews that were all meme reviews about using it whilst driving. Cant find the exact one, but it was one of those many Amazon products full of joke reviews.
thunfischbrot7 hours ago
I believe there‘s likely less wear in that position than any other angle you might use it at.
fuzzfactor2 hours ago
Hp has a lot of "convertible" laptops that open the full 360 if you want, usually with a touchsreen and two cameras so they can optionally be used as a tablet.
bodge50005 hours ago
This is obviously far more advanced, but I still think its a shame that the old style thinkpad dock didn't catch on more. For those who arent aware, the docks on old thinkpads used to double as a stand (and a lock too actually), originally connecting via a custom connector at the bottom of the laptop and then over dual usb-c slots.
adolphjust now
I saw plenty in corporate environments but I think people mostly wanted to use a larger and better screen than what was available on a laptop at the time.
What I never saw in the wild but which was neat was the Powerbook Duo dock that pulled in the laptop like a front loading VCR tape, peak Sculley-period pointless complexity. It totally enclosed the laptop in a closed configuration, the idea being that you would put a monitor on top of the dock.
shevy-java2 hours ago
I guess for simple objects, 3D printing is already sufficiently useful.
I'd still like it to be much cheaper and simpler though. My own tinker
days are over; I kind of want to depend on what is cheap and reliable;
or at the least very reliable. I honestly can not warrant time investment
when things don't work or break down in yet-another-component of my already
way too many components heavy living conditions here. 3D printing should
be so simple that one never has to think about it. Or print a surrogate
3D printer, to have as a backup device. But what about the materials? I
guess plastics dominate.
johnwalkr1 hour ago
"It just works" has become true for the top brands of consumer 3d printers in general. They are not simple devices (and neither is a 2D printer), but I don't think they are more complex than they need to be. It's just that they have been iterated enough that they are now mature. But a 3d printer that can print a complete backup of itself is not going to happen in our lifetimes. They are the price they are because of high volumes, off-the-shelf components, injection moulded parts, etc. You cannot make a good 3d printer yourself for anywhere close to low cost of buying a complete one, even if you 3d print as many parts as possible yourself.
Just in the last year or so you can get a $600 printer with a heated print chamber and heated material box that keeps the material from absorbing moisture. This takes them to an extra level of "just working".
There's a small learning curve, and things like lifted prints occasionally happen, but in this post that is literally one sentence describing the problem and another sentence describing the solution. There's good community support.
Plastics not only dominate, metallic 3d printing is not close to being ready for home consumer use, it's $50k for an entry level machine and it still arguably requires a basic machine shop for finishing to be very useful.
But there is still a wall many people hit with 3d printing. When it comes time to design something and not merely print an available file, it's hard to know where to start if you don't already have hands-on experience using CAD or at least an introduction to carpentry or something similar. But this is true of most tools, be it woodworking tools, or visual studio. It takes experience to go from an idea in your head to a series of parts that will assemble together. There will be times, especially in the early days of tweaking dimensions and reprinting things.
In summary, if you want to design things yourself and count this as tinkering that you don't want to do, it's probably not going to be an enjoyable hobby. If you just want to print things like curtain rings and brackets to hold your screwdrivers on an ikea pegboard, it's virtually tinker-free these days.
regularfryjust now
I learned CAD specifically for 3D printing. It was SolveSpace that made it click, it's simple enough that you can see what any other package is trying to do.
syntaxing2 hours ago
Huh? 3D printers haven been cheap and reliable for a while now. You can get an Bambulab A1 mini for $200 USD and it’s a work horse. If things break, get a new part online from them and it’s usually plug and play. I’m north of a thousand hours on my P1S and it’s still going strong.
iLoveOncall2 hours ago
Every time there's an article on HN about 3D printing you have a flock of people who have obviously not looked at a 3D printer in 10 years come and spout absolute nonsense.
As you're saying, modern printers are simply click and forget. I haven't had any maintenance or fix to do on my P1S in 2 years.
unwind6 hours ago
Very cool, nice effort and a good write-up!
If my math is right it seems the cost in material for the printed part is around $5 which seems ridiculously cheap for a custom-designed and adapted solution like this. Nice!
I wish the author had spent a few words extra to motivate why it needs to be in PETG filament for "heat resistance", is the regular PLA limit of ~55 degrees Celsius not okay for a desktop accessory? I guess if it's in direct sunlight that might be exceeded, or perhaps if the laptop runs very hot?
Fradow6 hours ago
To be fair, that's something you learn as soon as you start 3d printing.
Anything that experiences repeated stress and have any chance of getting over room temperature during summer should not be printed in PLA. And near a computer heating up, it sure looks like it's going to be higher than room temperature. Also pictures in a train exposed to sunlight via glasses are another reason for concern.
Compared to PLA, PETG has higher temperature resistance (by about 20°C), isn't quite as susceptible to stress, doesn't cost more and isn't any harder to print on modern printers.
Some people in the 3d printing community have totally ditched PLA and use PETG as a baseline because of that.
johnwalkr1 hour ago
I use ABS as a baseline, it holds up well, is easier to sand than most other materials, and is soluble in acetone which gives you some nice methods for smoothing layer lines as well as adhering parts together. It requires a heated chamber though.
dghlsakjgjust now
ABS also emits potentially toxic, and certainly unpleasant, fumes, so you need a good carbon filter and ventilation system!
kubik3696 hours ago
> is the regular PLA limit of ~55 degrees Celsius not okay for a desktop accessory?
Not the author, but PLA has a glass transition temperature of around 60 degrees, which in layman's terms is when it starts to melt. However, depending on the quality of the printing process, layers start separating/the print is pliable significantly lower, at around 35-40 degrees. This means that in countries where you get 30+ degree summers, PLA is not really suitable for anything which experiences any kind of stress. I would hazard a guess that the standing laptop can cause quite a bit of stress when the train starts/stops.
Doxin5 hours ago
It should be mentioned that as far as I can tell pretty much no one is selling pure PLA filament. They all have additives, so who knows what the actual glass transition temperature is for any random given filament. This has been true for a while too. Pure PLA has some properly awful properties, among which is it having pretty much no elastic deformation. Any amount of force will introduce microscopic cracks. The various additives reduce these kinds of issues and are therefore not really optional.
johnwalkr1 hour ago
It becomes pretty weak even on a hot day in the sun and in a hot car can melt (not into a puddle but into al dente pasta).
jedimastert2 hours ago
Glass transition temperatures are a little bit misleading, but from personal experience even leaving a PLA print in direct sunlight under even a little tension will cause it to warp in as little as 30 minutes if you aren't careful.
giancarlostoro4 hours ago
I used ASA for something I intended to keep in my garage, I live in Florida so summer gets hot. ASA is way more heat resistant than both. My water boiler uses the heat within the garage as part of how it warms water so my garage doesnt get too hot but it can still feel pretty bad in there.
quijoteuniv4 hours ago
Excellent that people work on ergonomics, especially for moving away from the centenary typewriter model, but remember that 15’ of streching-exercise , call it yoga - taichi (anything with more than 1000 years :D) goes further than hours of the perfect static ergonomics
jbverschoor3 hours ago
Or Apple can just allow macOS on iPads and all will be ok
driverdan2 hours ago
Apple is doing the opposite, locking down macOS and make it more like iOS.
stacktraceyo3 hours ago
I want this to happen to bad
girishso3 hours ago
and will help reduce e-waste
amelius7 hours ago
She should have a look at the Huawei Matebook. You can transform the screen into a big desktop sized screen. The only thing missing is a stand that brings it to an ergonomic height.
leoedin4 hours ago
I think you mean the Matebook Fold?
Surely the other missing thing is that it only runs a proprietary OS that nobody except Chinese companies develop apps for?
specproc5 hours ago
Or, she could sit down and think really hard about what she needs, come up with a neat technical solution, and share her thinking with a community that loves this stuff.
Glad she didn't go shopping.
pmontra9 hours ago
I'd cut off the numberpad of my laptop, center the touchpad and what's left of the keyboard. That would be my ergonomic setup.
That laptop served me well but it was a compromise between several factors. I think that at the time there were only an handful of 15" laptops without a numberpad and probably it's still like that. I eventually had to give up on that to get other features.
VBprogrammer5 hours ago
For my home laptop I ended up going for 13" specifically to avoid off centre / number pad layouts.
I'm sure there are plenty of better options if money is no object but it was mainly for light gaming, personal projects, video editing etc.
Heliosmaster9 hours ago
That's basically what I'm telling folks. My MBP16 is fantastic in that regard. I use the integrated touchpad only
metalman5 hours ago
while I aplaud the very well thought out and implimented design for a computer interface
(it has very strong space ship vibes)
there is a fundamental flaw in the premise, in that ergonomics implys some optimisation of the physical(cardio) effort(impact, strain) and comfort of useing a tool, which is impossible while hunched over a static device making very small partial body movements. So this set up will very likely optimise well for speed run missions,but the cost will actualy be greater pressure and strain on a persons body overall, and the only answer for that is to fully detach, relax, exercise, and rest between missions.
dghlsakjgjust now
I've never seen ergonomics, or the subset of the field known as physical ergonomics defined this way. Can I ask where you found this interpretation?
marak8309 hours ago
That's a really interesting concept. Either once they open source their build (or I get over my innate laziness) I could use something like that for my build at home (more of a horizontal stand style thing, looking at the monitor) - my laptop's primarily my second monitor at home with attached KB.
More fuel to help convince my wife the printer isn't a waste of money xD
Cool stuff, you might already be using this but this roundedcube function has drastically improved the quality of my prints: https://gist.github.com/groovenectar/92174cb1c98c1089347e
I have a "car desk", which is just a little expandable contraption you hang on the steering wheel, then you can place your laptop on it. I wouldn't call it ergonomic per se (the right external keyboard could probably fix that), but using it for about one hour per week, it works well and doesn't cause any issues I'm aware of. The driver seat is not a place where I previously could get any work done, so the bar is a bit low.
The ergonomy of most laptops (and keyboards in general) is poor. The modern laptop that is most ergonomic is the "2 in 1" design, which can be folded and used as a tablet.
For a programmer, an ergonomic keyboard with a trackball, connected to a 2-in-1 portable in tablet mode, might be easiest to assemble from common components for working during travel.
I remember one of those on Amazon with like a thousand reviews that were all meme reviews about using it whilst driving. Cant find the exact one, but it was one of those many Amazon products full of joke reviews.
What I never saw in the wild but which was neat was the Powerbook Duo dock that pulled in the laptop like a front loading VCR tape, peak Sculley-period pointless complexity. It totally enclosed the laptop in a closed configuration, the idea being that you would put a monitor on top of the dock.
I'd still like it to be much cheaper and simpler though. My own tinker days are over; I kind of want to depend on what is cheap and reliable; or at the least very reliable. I honestly can not warrant time investment when things don't work or break down in yet-another-component of my already way too many components heavy living conditions here. 3D printing should be so simple that one never has to think about it. Or print a surrogate 3D printer, to have as a backup device. But what about the materials? I guess plastics dominate.
Just in the last year or so you can get a $600 printer with a heated print chamber and heated material box that keeps the material from absorbing moisture. This takes them to an extra level of "just working".
There's a small learning curve, and things like lifted prints occasionally happen, but in this post that is literally one sentence describing the problem and another sentence describing the solution. There's good community support.
Plastics not only dominate, metallic 3d printing is not close to being ready for home consumer use, it's $50k for an entry level machine and it still arguably requires a basic machine shop for finishing to be very useful.
But there is still a wall many people hit with 3d printing. When it comes time to design something and not merely print an available file, it's hard to know where to start if you don't already have hands-on experience using CAD or at least an introduction to carpentry or something similar. But this is true of most tools, be it woodworking tools, or visual studio. It takes experience to go from an idea in your head to a series of parts that will assemble together. There will be times, especially in the early days of tweaking dimensions and reprinting things.
In summary, if you want to design things yourself and count this as tinkering that you don't want to do, it's probably not going to be an enjoyable hobby. If you just want to print things like curtain rings and brackets to hold your screwdrivers on an ikea pegboard, it's virtually tinker-free these days.
As you're saying, modern printers are simply click and forget. I haven't had any maintenance or fix to do on my P1S in 2 years.
If my math is right it seems the cost in material for the printed part is around $5 which seems ridiculously cheap for a custom-designed and adapted solution like this. Nice!
I wish the author had spent a few words extra to motivate why it needs to be in PETG filament for "heat resistance", is the regular PLA limit of ~55 degrees Celsius not okay for a desktop accessory? I guess if it's in direct sunlight that might be exceeded, or perhaps if the laptop runs very hot?
Compared to PLA, PETG has higher temperature resistance (by about 20°C), isn't quite as susceptible to stress, doesn't cost more and isn't any harder to print on modern printers.
Some people in the 3d printing community have totally ditched PLA and use PETG as a baseline because of that.
Not the author, but PLA has a glass transition temperature of around 60 degrees, which in layman's terms is when it starts to melt. However, depending on the quality of the printing process, layers start separating/the print is pliable significantly lower, at around 35-40 degrees. This means that in countries where you get 30+ degree summers, PLA is not really suitable for anything which experiences any kind of stress. I would hazard a guess that the standing laptop can cause quite a bit of stress when the train starts/stops.
Surely the other missing thing is that it only runs a proprietary OS that nobody except Chinese companies develop apps for?
Glad she didn't go shopping.
That laptop served me well but it was a compromise between several factors. I think that at the time there were only an handful of 15" laptops without a numberpad and probably it's still like that. I eventually had to give up on that to get other features.
I'm sure there are plenty of better options if money is no object but it was mainly for light gaming, personal projects, video editing etc.
More fuel to help convince my wife the printer isn't a waste of money xD